Anti-Adoption?
Before you get offended, because you have adopted, or are adopted, or maybe surrendered a child to adoption, take a deep breath, this is not against YOU. There is a bigger picture, a bigger umbrella that you and / or your household is only a small part of. Most likely you have no idea that the system is such a large scale system, and that it has manipulated YOU as well.
If you’re already feeling angry, I ask you to please bookmark and return later at a more peaceful time in your life.
If you’d like to stay and talk about things for a while, I’m more than willing.
What I’m asking of any guest that should come across this site is to look at the greater picture of adoption. HOW MUCH is it really benefiting society? WHO is it benefiting? What is happening to the aftermath of adoption? Why are families being separated by adoption? What rights to the adoptees have…or not have? Is adoption ethical? Are foster youth and children giving the opportunities they deserve? Should money, or lack of determine your eligibility of parenthood?
No I don’t think starving children should be left to die. That would be incredibly cruel of me and I am not a cruel person. A humanitarian infact, and I believe that we, as one human race, should be helping poverty stricken communitties on a greater scale than the adoption of their offspring. Helping ourselves(Americans) to their children(international adoption) isn’t really helping them improve their society in any way. Its helping to support whatever is causing such a profound loss that would make a mother surrender her child. Not just A mother, but hundreds of thousands of mothers surrendering their children to adoption every year.
The newborn infant adoption industry in America is so full of corruption and secrecy its going to just burst at any minute. The UK isn’t giving me much hope even though identity rights have been restored. Africa and India have recently had child trafficking rings busted, America has them in every state, most likely under any foo foo alias “adoption a loving choice” “miracle adoptions” you know, the “non profit”(i’ll definately be exposing how much they’re REALLY making) agencies who call expecting mothers “birthmothers” “heroic”and “wonderful” for giving their flesh and blood to complete strangers. China is forcing its women into surrenders of their children and isn’t showing any hope for growth in that department any time soon.
Some good news in Korea though, they no longer want to be known as the baby exporting country so they’ve set up a family planning program to encourage single motherhood and make it more possible. Hopefully it will put a dent into the ending of their baby exporting.
My point to this being, with just a “little” bit of research, you find that its not just a couple of little things that are forcing mothers into surrender, creating profound loss within the infant/child/youth and herself. Its many different circumstances that need to be addressed and reformed immediately as a whole.
Attachment related issues can have a profound effect on children and adults, that can take lifetimes to heal. Prevention, if possible should be of primary concern, infact the UN convention of the rights of the child says that it children DO have that right. If we want any hope for our worlds future we must drastically change the way we’re treating our children and their families, before its too late.
Golden rule: Open minds, open discussion.
(edited to add some details on 9/08)
March 21, 2008 at 8:23 am
from mine own view i see adoption to be a humanitarian service to the society. giving succour and peace to the orphans or destitutes not neccesarily asking the poor parents to give up their children,here we advocate for family support or social services that will enable these parents support their family appropraiately.but in situations where these kids are left wit no hope nor family to rely on. they grow up becoming a bane to the society of which any one even u can fall a victim.but if these kids are taken into a family properly (legally) it will give a glimmer of hope to their dreams. and this is good so we recommend that u rephrase and properly specify your fight against adoption.
Vision: “striving towards the reality that every child deserves a home”
we carry out enlightnment and educative programmes their will provide foster parenting . and adoption .and as well provide a safety and legal network to protct their rights.
March 22, 2008 at 10:35 pm
From my view, adoption isn’t anywhere NEAR a humanitarian service to society or to children. Perhaps to prospective adoptive parents wanting to add children into their family, but its certainly not even within proximity of helping orphans or poverty stricken communities on a large scale basis.
What does adoption do to help poverty stricken communities and countries? How does it help end the poverty? What is it doing for the “people” left behind in the country the “adoptee” comes from? It appears we agree that mothers and fathers should be given the means necessary to parent and that poverty shouldn’t attribute to adoptions, but it most certainly does.
Speaking of orphans there are over 13 million orphans from Aids alone, in Africa, what is adoption doing to help them on a large scale? In my opinion, little and that is giving it a lot of credit. There are MUCH GREATER things that “humanitarians” could be doing for orphans with $20,000-$40,000 which they’re instead spending on ONE CHILD.
Telefood http://www.telefood.com – For never more than $10,000 telefood goes into ‘communities’ and restores villages from 5-30 people and “teaches” them how to survive off of the land. Fixes their housing, gives them food, training and education to survive in the future. They help end the reasons behind relinquishing in poverty stricken communities.
Mothers without Borders – http://www.motherswithoutborders.org goes into Africa creates safe homes for the fleeing children caught in war to flee to, and gives them scholarships to go to bording schools in their country to get education and remain a part of their country. They provide education, clothing, food and bording for children all across the continent. THEY are impacting orphans on a LARGE SCALE for MUCH LESS than the cost of an adoption.
And look at what this man is doing to help orphans on a large scale building “orphan communities” that provide for many more orphans for the price of an adoption: http://www.orphancommunities.org/Home.asp
The list can really go on and on about impacting orphans from a humanitarian approach compared to adoption. Adoption, is about the industry making money.
Fortress, I defined my statement very clear. I ask all guests stopping to REALLY sit down and think about adoption. REALLY THINK about it. Look at the BIG PICTURE of adoption.
HOW MUCH is it really benefiting society? WHO is it benefiting? What is happening to the aftermath of adoption?
There are many groups that make the aftermath of adoption, I am willing to go over all of them with you for the sake of understanding adoption in the big picture that it is to open your eyes to the fact that its doing MUCH MORE damage than it is doing GOOD.
STEP OUTSIDE THE BOX.
April 23, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Anti-adoption advocates hate infertile couples in general, seeing us as the problem. What they fail to realize is that many, many infertile couples have NO desire at all to adopt. For us, adoption would only be a VERY LAST RESORT.
That’s right, birthmothers – your child would be a last resort for us, whether you like that or not. Your child is not the great prize you may think he is. What most of us want most is our own biological child!
Thank God for advances in reproductive medicine. IVF success rates are improving all the time. I predict in the future there will be a lot fewer people adopting or fostering children, because they will be able to have their own child.
May 13, 2008 at 1:16 am
That was harsh. I guess you didn’t even look around. I’m not a “birthmother” I’m the undesired last resort. Nice. How fitting that she posted this on my birthday lmao.
And for the record, I don’t “hate” infertile people. That would mean I hate my adoptive parents and I don’t hate them either. You’re very defensive for something you care so little about.
May 22, 2008 at 6:53 am
At age eight my family adopted two brothers of age nine and eleven. Their father had abandoned them. Their mother, due to mental illness, had them living on the street. By the time we meet them they had been in the foster system for many years. From what I gather you suggest
1) There could have been more done to keep them with their mother. — I agree
2) Massive programs that address poverty are better than one of solutions of adoptive parents. – I disagree
I come from Hawaii and am of Hawaiian descent. As a people, ancient Hawaiians often adopted children. These adoptions happened for many reasons. It was an honor to be given the opportunity to raise a child. Therefor children were often raised by parents who were not their biological parents. Having experience the remnants of this practice in my family and in the families of others I can promise that these acts were acts of love. Best of all, adoption in this from was, more often than not, highly beneficial to the child. The act of adoption in Hawaii made these children feel wanted and cherished not abandoned. This is in direct contrast of the writer who explained that adoption for most infertile parents is an act of last resort. This kind of adoption is simple an act of love.
I propose that adoptions of this orientation are little miracles that are needed and are not outweighed by efforts to rid poverty among large groups. The service my family was able to provide to my brothers was highly valuable. They learned to love again, because a family decided to give them respect and love for the duration of their lives. Thus year after year these two children of God were blessed with a family that truly cared for them. (Note I am comparing our relationship with my brothers to their relationships in the foster system not the relationship held with their mother. )
The key is that they were supplied with this love from year to year. I am a true believer that the best way to build a gorge is a powerful river that slowly but surely eats away at the rock from year to year. Life on earth is not easy. To think that poverty can be overcome with very quick means is wrong. The best method to overcome poverty is microfinance but the only effective microfinance programs do more than lend money. They actually stick around each family and provide millions of social services. Adoption is a perfect method for a family to dedicate a lifetime of service to an individual. This lifetime of dedication and love makes it a miracle.
Now make it known that I do not believe in the process of going to a foreign country to adopt a new born. I believe in adopting children in your own State who have been abandoned by their parents. Now in this context I still believe that adoptions aren’t always best. In the case where mothers are deemed unfit to raise their children there are some questions I desire to ask. Are we doing enough to help the mother keep her children? Are their groups and programs that identify families who are about to risk losing their children and then set them up with families who in a way can adopt the whole family instead of just the kids? A program that gives these children all the love they get from adoption with but also keeps them with their birth parents would be best. Yet, we should not forget that adoption is definitely a labor love and a magical thing. Even with programs where families are adopted in a sense not just the kids parents can choose to mess up. Birth parents are human and have the opportunity to miss up. I believe if society tries its hardest to help a family and they still choose to molest a child or continue to make bad choices that leave their children no choice but to live on the streets, i.e. drug use, I believe that adoption is the right thing for those kids. Those kids should be protected. They should be taken from their parents and should be adopted. The family who does adopt the children should respect the birth parents and should let them clean up their lives and get their children back. But the key is that adoption is highly needed and the right thing to do for these children and their birth parents in these cases.
So in summary I come from the Hawaiian culture where adoptions was very common in ancient time and was a practice that made children feel loved not abandoned. I believe in adoption of children in your own State. I do not believe in the practice of going to other countries to get a new born. I think Adoption is a miracle because the family who adopts these children will labor for the adopted children for the rest of these children’s lives which is a lot of sacrifice and a lot of love. Their could be more work to help struggling families that keeps kids with their natural born parents. It is a great goal to keep children with their birth parents. Yet, we are human and even with our best efforts birth parents can be selfish and either get into something like drugs or may abuse their children. In this case adoptions is needed and is a blessing.
May 24, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Hi,
I agree with you to some degree. I too, am Hawaiian. Only I was taught something much different about “our” culture, being that “our” Hawaiian people try to keep each other in the family as much as possible. Acknowledging the sacredness to Hawaiian Ancestry, not wanting to let “our people” get lost by adoption. Which, is what happened to me, but we can overlook that for the moment.
I think that you, serious about adoption, have some beautiful ideas which hopefully were behind the intention of “adoption” to begin with, but the reality of it has unfortunately grown to be much much more corrupted than family preservation first and adoption as a last alternative only after the first parents have failed.
For example Camira Bailey a Hawai’i local, today just lost a long fight for her child. Her child which she never abused, which she was coerced into surrendering, which she fought tooth and nail for, the Aparents (who left the state with the child, without custody of the child) won custody because of bonding, but they shouldn’t have had the child to begin with. What kind of world is this when abductors are getting custody because they fled early enough with the child before anyone caught them?
Thats not really a question to “you” but really the world in general because the reality of adoption today is frightening, for first parents, for adoptees, and adoptive parents. Everyone is getting scammed right across the board and then played against each other to cover up the real culprits making all the money.
Its time that agencies and social workers and the states are held accountable for what they are doing. If adoption was about helping the children who needed homes there wouldn’t be children languishing in the foster care system that are available for adoption, they’d all have homes.
Thanks for stopping by and I do hope you stick around, i have appreciated the dialogs.
June 6, 2008 at 4:30 am
Hello
I am a french journalist working on a documentary on illegal adoptions (babies being given / sold to adoption abroad) whereas they were not orphans. I would like to meet people in NYC where i am gonna be in one month to make interviews with these persons. I already started filming some stuff in cambodia recently on babies being sold to orphanage and then foreigners. Thanx for telling if you can help. all my best. dominique Mesmin dm1@noos.fr
August 26, 2008 at 11:49 am
I understand where you’re coming from, though I think you are looking at adoption from a very narrow minded perspective. Yes, there is a lot of corruption. I’ve been through two international adoptions and have seen it first hand. It happens in the agencies and happens in the governments. I think it’s quite criminal that so many children are basically held hostage so parents will pay more. But that is NOT the case with everything. I’ve done my research too.
My husband and I have discussed the benefits of bringing home one child over donating the money for a greater scale cause. We determined that both are necessary and different people are used in different ways. Unlike a previous post, adoption is NOT a last and final option for many infertile couples. People who are so harsh should, in my opinion, never bear children at all. Your child is your child, regardless. People like that want perfect babies…and what happens if that baby isn’t perfect?
We adopted because we wanted to have kids. We also did it because those children deserve something better. I’m sorry, but growing up in an orphanage with a few extra diapers and food because we donated some money, is in no way a substitute for an actual family. Perhaps other children are being left behind, but there are so many coming home. Haven’t you ever heard of the Butterfly Effect? Changing the life of just one child could have an impact greater than donating $40,000 to help with family planning.
I’m all for humanitarian aid. But, I do not think people should be forced into giving it where someone else so chooses. I think it’s quite noble that you want to help stop the spread of AIDS. I choose to give love to my kids. Statistically, they would have either entered a life of crime, committed suicide or gone into prostitution had I not. I IN NO WAY consider myself a martyr or a humanitarian. I consider myself a monther. And despite any corruption that might be out there, lives have been changed, for the better, because of adoption agencies.
If you really want people to help, ask them to stop buying new cars and houses that are too big. Tell them to start actually giving money to the poor and stop smoking cigarettes. But to have people stop adopting because YOU think the money would better be spent somewhere else…that’s a concept I just don’t understand. Perhaps one day there will be no more orphans…and that will be a wonderful day. But to stop adoptions now to get to that point…what happens to all of those children left behind? No, adoption goes beyond the humanitarian effort…this is about love and human decency.
August 26, 2008 at 1:55 pm
So, you think my view is narrow minded, and I disagree with yours.
Nobody says that helping children on a larger scale when donating money as opposed to adopting them, is going to leave them in an orphanage. But it WOULD help many children stay together with their natural families, it would also help children stay in their native land, with their culture, language, identity and society. It would also help communities get education, housing, and training to provide for themselves for the years after the help, so that “surrendering their loved and wanted children” wouldn’t have to be the last result to poverty and needing to feed the rest of the family.
In your second to last paragraph you (Ilovemykids) say that you’re not considering yourself a humanitarian, but in the last paragraph you say that “adoption” goes beyond a humanitarian effort. I’m wondering which it is?
I completely disagree that adoption is a humanitarian, and I would in no way give any of the credit to adoption agencies. Adoption isn’t benefiting children on a large scale compared to the children who need help. Adoption exists the way it does today, because couples are willing to pay thousands of money for a child to call their own. Agencies are only here in the United States to make money, they are in this for the financial benefits like any other businesses. They are here to meet the demands of their clients. To give them any more credit than that, is ignorance and narrow minded from where I sit. I could go on and on about agency corruption, you name an agency, 2 times out of 3 I’d bet I could find some corruption in their history.
I don’t think that you do understand where I’m coming from, or else you wouldn’t call ME narrow minded, and you wouldn’t be advocating for adoption on an anti-adoption blog.
Let me ask you this, would you have moved to your child’s country of birth, learned their language and left your entire lifestyle to be closer to them? Would you have adopted their mother ( if able to do so ) and brought her to your home and helped raise your new grandchildren? Did you rename your children? Would you have done all this for them, if they didn’t call you mom and dad? Do you think its a right to have children?
I’m guessing that you and your husband came to the conclusion of adopting over donating money to a cause that could help communities and REAL orphans on a large scale because you had selfish desires that you wanted to full fill, which I’m not dissing you for wanting to be a parent, i think its natural to have an urge to want to be a parent, but I also think it blinds people from making clear choices when wanting to help humanity.
There are many other ways to REALLY help children who need it, than giving babies in orphanages more diapers and food. And someone who truly wanted to do that, could. But when you have intentions like becoming a parent, and being called mom and dad, and having your name on their “birth certificate” ALL of those other options can and often are, easily dismissed.
The adoption industry exists because people are willing to pay thousands of dollars for a child and other people are willing to provide and exploit those children in order to meet that demand. Children are being stolen from their mothers in order to full-fill this demand for children. It happens all around our world on a daily basis. Women are being subjected to having to choose between starving to death or surrendering their children to adoption. Govt. policies are stripping families of their children and all the while, the US couples “wanting children” are acting like its a God given right that they have and try justifying it over helping prevent these problems, helping end these problems, and helping orphans, REAL ORPHANS, on a large scale heal from these problems.
I think you have a lot of nerve to come here and tell me Adoption is beyond a humanitarian effort. If adoption was about LOVE and human decency adoptees would have life’s basic rights in the United States. Children wouldn’t be sold for adoption for different prices according to their races. Countries wouldn’t be closing adoption to the United States due to human trafficking and child exploitation. Adoptees would have access to their birth certificates and adoption records. The history of sealing wouldn’t be based on black market adoptions and child trafficking.
Heres a game, you name a country, and I’ll find an article on it about how another mother is looking for her child that was kidnapped and sold for adoption to the United States. Go ahead, pick a country, any country. Its happening all across our WORLD. That is NOT love, and that is NOT human decency.
With all due respect, my views are not narrow minded, I have been researching adoption and the impact of separation trauma on children for quite a number of years. Not to mention I’ve lived it my entire life. Nor am i the only one who feels this way. Have you seen the adoptee centric groups forming across the globe to end international adoption? Have you seen the groups advocating for the ethical treatment of adoptees? These organizations don’t exist for no reason, they exist for good reason. I suggest for you to open up your heart a little more to these harsh and chilling realities because one day, someone very precious to you is going to be asking some serious questions, and if you’re not there to answer them honestly, they’ll turn to someone else.
August 26, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Why does this remind me of a Republican and a Democrat talking politics? It leads to an impass.
First, I am curious as to how you feel about people choosing fertility treatments over adoption. That is also money that could be going to humanitarian aid. Are people only allowed to have children if they are capeable of doing so “naturally”? I know you said you aren’t dissing us wanting to be parents, so how would you have suggested we go about it?
I do not disagree with you that some children are being stolen. I do not disagree that some women are forced to give up their children. China is a perfect example. However, I do not see how, based on the practices of their governments, the children in these orphanages should be punished.
Yes, we did choose to adopt for selfish reasons. Yes, we wanted children. And yes, I love that they call me Mommy. And I would give my life for them…in a heart beat. If any other mother would say differently, she’s not a good mother. My daughter’s village had no running water and she has a heart condition. Had we not brought her home, she would have died. In the midst of our travels, we gave aid to her village. A place most people will never hear of. Perhaps it will help those who are left behind.
My comment about going beyond being a humanitarian was not to say that this was, in fact, a humanitarian effort. Humanitarian aid has a price, a labor, and then it’s done. To care for and change individuals lives is something completely different. In the midst of bringing our children home, we did bring aid to their regions. But some of us just KNOW where our children are. If you had a biological child and he was lost in a war torn country, would you just leave them there?
I would love, for just one minute, for everyone to quit thinking that all Westerners are evil. Some things are selfish and some are not.
And just in case you were wondering, my husband and I have given more money to both domestic and international aid than most people would ever consider doing in a lifetime. Instead of spending money on a bigger house or nicer car, we adopted. That was our decision.
I think this is just something we will have to disagree on as we have completely different perspectives. My sister-in-law was essentially stolen from her birthmother and found out about it later. I know that it has had certain ramifications. But two of my brothers, who were given up because their birthmothers were just too young (and yes, we know for a fact this was the case as my grandfather was their doctor), have been nothing short of supportive for our decision to adopt.
I understand that this is your blog and perhaps I infliltrated with my view. I tried to explain that, while I don’t agree with you, I do understand some validity to your resoning. But I will never apologize for adopting, nor will I ever stop encouraging others to do so. It breaks my heart that Russia will pay for abortions and not birth control. It breaks my heart that countries like Romania discard children in the corner of a hospital room and let them starve to death while refusing aid from Western countries. These are the things we need to help fix, but these are not in our control and there is only so much we can do.
Sometimes, in looking at the big picture, we overlook the people in front of us. While I agree that sometimes we must sacrifice one to save a thousand…sometimes that one can make a bigger difference than we realize.
I will not say that children who are adopted will never experience any sort of separation trauma. Nor do I think it’s responsible for you to imply that all children will experience it and were somehow stolen. Is it best for children to say with their biological families? In many cases yes, and we should do everything we can to help keep it that way. However, there are a lot of people out there not fit to parent. People who never should have gotten pregnant to begin with, but it happens. To say all children should stay in their natural environment would have meant a death sentance for my daughter. Maybe, just maybe, some birthmothers actually have their child’s best interest in mind. I consider myself beyond blessed to be forever connected to them.
I’ve enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject and now I’ll leave you alone.
August 26, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I don’t believe it is a right to have a child no.
Fertility treatments are interesting. They’re clearly selfish intentions, the clients are not going into a fertility clinic advocating that its a humanitarian act of random kindness coming from the in-vitro injections. They aren’t going into the situation to benefit anyone other than themselves. And they’re paying quite a large amount of money in order to do so.
I think thats an entirely different ball park from adoption, especially when people justify its “worthiness” ( for lack of a better term, vocab has never been my strength ) due to the children stricken by poverty and living in filth in third world countries around our world and in our foster care system.
I don’t think the two are comparable on the same level.
I do not think it is a right to be a parent. I know that seems harsh, but when is enough enough? and when will people start helping humanity without having to benefit from it themselves?
Where does the line between “wanting someone for your own” and “helping others in horrible situations” get drawn?
Your daughter was sick, she would have died, must she have lost her entire country, people, family, and identity in order to get medical care? Is that fair to HER? In order to LIVE, she had to lose EVERYTHING, and everything had to lose HER, and will she be raised to be grateful for that too? Maybe, hopefully not by you, but I can assure you society will never let her forget it once they know she’s adopted and the circumstances behind that.
I don’t believe the children living in orphanages should be punished either. What is adoption doing to end the separation that is happening? Nothing, in fact, its ENCOURAGING it. encouraging it.
I’m totally offended by you suggesting that these are your children before adoption. That, offends me deeply. As if this suffering she went through, her family has gone through, her heart condition was all meant to be so YOU could adopt her. Do you see how entitled that is? Do you see how wrong that line of thought is. That it was all meant to be, as if her suffering was supposed to happen? Ouch. That hurts. Thats like being told to be grateful for all of it. Grateful for your heart condition, grateful for abuse, grateful for losing everything, just in order to be taken to the promised land where your family who you weren’t born to, didn’t know, were complete strangers feeling like you were already theirs and that it was meant to be. double ouch.
Speaking of suffering and trauma from separation, it DOES exist, in ALL of us. Its mind boggling to me that people still believe that taking a child from her mother, the only comfort she has ever known even if it was for 9 months in the womb, would not traumatize a child to any amount of degree. This doesn’t only happen with adoptees, this happens with children left in NICU’s, children who’s mothers die, children who get taken right after birth from their mothers and put into the “nurseries.” Separation trauma exists. Anyone who doesn’t believe in it, hasn’t read modern day research on it. I would be more than happy to refer you or anyone else reading this to some.
http://lizardchronicles.blogspot.com has loads of it on her link list.
Does separation trauma mean that you can’t heal past it? does it mean that we’re screwed for the rest of our lives? does it mean we can’t survive it? does it mean that some of us, by the time we’re adults will even recognize its impact on our lives? no. it doesn’t. But to deny its reality, and its impact on our infant selves is terribly damaging to the development of “us” who are survivors of it. Anyone who has lost a mother at an early age, goes through this, regardless if it impacts their life later or not. Its not irresponsible for acknowledging documented research, in fact, I feel like it is RESPONSIBLE for me for doing so because many many people aren’t aware that this research even exists.
I also don’t believe all children are stolen.
Nor do i believe that all children should stay with their natural parents, in the small percentage of cases where parents are neglectful and not worthy of parenting, the children shouldn’t stay with them. All children deserve a safe place to live, but does that mean they need to be adopted? Nope, not in my eyes.
You’re welcome to stay, i invite you to, and I invite you to comment on whatever you’re thinking. I take back my comment that you had nerve advocating adoption on an anti adoption blog. I don’t want to separate the tides more than they already are. I want to hear your thoughts, and am open to discussion. I feel like yes, this is like a democrat and republican debate, two totally different perspectives. But I can debate with an open heart and am willing to listen and maybe even learn.
peace!
August 27, 2008 at 6:19 am
Gershom, I think before we go any further, I need calrity on what your actual feeling are on adoption. Are you completely against it, across the board? Do you just not like the corruption, the agencies, the governments? You said earlier that you do not think children should not languish in orphanages, yet that is exactly what happens when they are not adopted. In a perfect world, orphanages would not exist. Nor would war, famine, homelessness, etc. But this is not a perfect world, nor will it ever be. Throwing money at a problem won’t solve it. Just look at all of the money we have sent to Africa. What we need to do is educate, change lives. I believe you are all for that…for educating and trying to keep the biological family together. But we need to live in reality and understand that can only be combated so far.
I have been to several orphanages now and have seen first hand children begging to have a home, regardless of age. They do not deserve their circumstances. And of the 50,000 children being adopted every year, most are not relinquished because of duress. Some can’t afford to keep their child. Some don’t want to. And some just shouldn’t. Yes, some people abuse their adopted kids. A lot more abuse their biological ones simply based on the fact that most people live with their biological families. That is a tragedy in itself and THAT is the sort of thing we need to work on stopping.
My kids probably will be told time and time again how lucky she is to have us. People tell me that now. You know what I say in return? “No, I am the lucky one. We’ve been blessed because of them.” It irritates me to no end. I think you have a sense that all adoptive parents consider themselves martyrs. I have a large community of adoptive friends and NONE of us think that way! None of those with biological and adopted children think their adopted kids owe them any more than their biological ones. And I know a lot of adults, raised with their biological parents, who feel like second class citizens for one reason or another. I remember one of my siblings telling my cousins how lucky they were to have their parents (biological) because they had more money, nicer things, etc. And there is nothing wrong with being grateful for what we have. Should my kids be grateful for their home, their clothes, their family? Absolutely. And so should yours. And we should be grateful for them.
I think you and I will not be able to ever agree on this point because we just have two different worldviews. You believe it’s better to invest in society as a whole. I choose to invest in individual lives. If I ever have a biological child, I will teach them to be thankful for what they have just as I would an adopted child. I believe there is a purpose for individual lives. Sometimes we go through crappy stuff. That’s not limited to adoptees and their biological families. We all have pain, we all have hurt, some more than others. But there is a purpose. Perhaps it’s to build character; perhaps it’s to change the lives of those around us.
I am so happy that you have a great relationship with both your adoptive parents and biological mother. So many people don’t have that and I completely commend you for working so hard to break down those walls and help others. My children now have that chance. They should absolutely be given the same opportunities. Hopefully one day we can get the money needed to bring education and business to people across the globe out of the hands of the governments and into the hands of people who actually care. Until then, you keep up your fight and I’ll keep up mine. One day we might just make this world a little better.
August 27, 2008 at 10:16 am
Can you see how many times you are insulting me in your first paragraph. The way you talk down to me, makes me defensive, and I’m not too cool with it. I can’t communicate well with people talking down on me like that.
As if my views would only be possible in a perfect world. As if it takes a perfect world to help orphans without adopting them?!?!
Adoption is not the only way to help an orphan. How many children in orphanages do you really think are orphans?
And it doesn’t take a perfect world to change the way things are done. I don’t need to be told that war, famine, poverty etc. wouldn’t exist in a perfect world, i’m not stupid. Do you know how many times I have been told the “in a perfect world” argument by an adoptive parent? Seriously.
No I don’t have a sense that all AP’s are Martyrs, I’ve met quite a few who are incredible and are doing it right. Thirdmom comes instantly to my mind, she is amazing. Not to mention my own mother and they certainly aren’t the only ones.
When you want to have a mature discussion that doesn’t start with assumed stupidity on my behalf and talking down to me, I will be here.
August 27, 2008 at 2:02 pm
“I’ve understand where you’re coming from, though I think you are looking at adoption from a very narrow minded perspective. Yes, there is a lot of corruption. I’ve been through two international adoptions and have seen it first hand”.
See..that’s the thing…You say you have SEEN Adoptions go through. We Adoptees FEEL them go through, and the difference is the difference between being the one walking the dog, and having all the power and control as you tug on the leash and boss the animal around and being the dog on the leash who is getting half strangled with a choke collar…I’m sure you can figure out that Adoptees are in the same postion as Fido…YOU people know your lineage and we don’t growing up, and that is TOTALLY UNFAIR. You AP’s are no better than slave owners really and you deprive us of our human rights. “I love my kids” (and they aren’t YOUR kids, you did not make them, you did not throw up with morning sickness, you did not get strech marks and you did not go through the horrilbe pain of childbirth and you have NONE of their DNA) are you going to tell “your” children who they are really realated too? Are you going to tell them what the woman who carried them looks like? Or about her parents? You many think all is fine now, if you are even telling the truth, but trust me, as they get older, that will change and if you keep info from them, and try to stop them from finding out who they really are and go around demading your God like ego status that THEIR Adoption is ALL about you being the big man(or woman in your case)then they are going to hate you. Plain and simple. They will resent you, they will not trust you, they will leave your life. I don’t beleive in Adoption, unless a child is an orphan, with NO living relatives anywhere and that can be proved by an outside force, not connected to an Adoption Agency in any way. But even then, the child should know who his or her family was, and they should have tons of pictures, get to talk to people who knew thier parents, and even keep their own last name. There should be no Adoptive Parents, only Gaurdians. I agree with Gershom, that no one is owed a child in this life-no one is owed anything in this life-you get what you get, and if you can’t get pregnant then be a Gaurdian to an older American kid. We are NOT your toys, your possessions, or your damn property. We are human beings THAT WANT OUR OWN PEOPLE. And we have a right to them.
August 27, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Also, I want to say too, that what you have done is stolen these children’s Mother’s role, you have not helped them. If you really wanted to help them, you would of gone through all the red tape to get them into this country and let them live with you until they are financially on their feet. You AP’s diguse “charity” and “helping the poor and kids in orphanages” with the your underlying true motive. Getting something for your self. I also meant in my last post when I said older American kids, to adopt, I meant a foster child here in America, but you AP’s have to have little children whose minds you mold like a figure out of play dough. And that is never in the best interest of any child or human being.
August 28, 2008 at 11:50 am
firstly to I love my kids. Romania has completely reformed its child care system and is nothing but a credit to the country. These changes were only possible because it had the courage to close its door to all inter country adoptions and truly put the needs of its children before monetary gain, a monetary gain that only pays by keeping a country reliant on its cash and preventing any reform. With the help of the EU union Romania now has a child welfare system to be proud of and has eliminated completely any need for inter country adoptions. A country that has achieved so much deserves the respect of a little research and not the harsh false image you portrait.
Gersholm, Hiya, I bang my head against the wall trying to understand why people seem to need an adoption certificate or should that be certificate of ownership to love and care for a child. keep up the good work, you know you inspire me!
tina xx
August 30, 2008 at 11:09 am
I think that some adoptees may have never gotten over their feelings of being adopted and perhaps feeling abandoned as a result. But, not all adoptees feel the same way. Many appreciate the chance they were given in life and wonder what a life they would have had, had they not been adopted but see it in a positive way. I asked an adopted girl in my class once, wasn’t she in the least bit interested in knowing who her bloodline was and she in no uncertain terms told me she was more interested in lovelines. She was happy and appreciative not only about the opportunities her mother gave her but of the experiences her adoptive parents gave her. She was well-rounded, felt loved and had no issues of any kind what-so-ever. Her parents did a great job raising her, better than my parents had done with me and I’m not adopted. You can never know for sure where your life belongs and where you’ll do the greater good, just make the best of the one God gave you, because that’s the one that was meant for you.
August 30, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Hi different strokes.
I think you’ve missed (or not read, maybe I haven’t made it clear enough on here …)some important points.
My positions on adoption don’t mean I don’t appreciate my life. I appreciate the life I have lived and have wondered what a life I would have had. The legalities and process of adoption has life changing impacts on people, that need to be addressed. That doesn’t mean that people can’t go on in life and have incredible lives. We as the people primarily involved now, are responsible for changing the wrong (in my opinion) and fixing the system or else nobody will.
I don’t think you are in any type of position of saying a girl in your class that you asked “once” felt no issues of any kind what-so-ever. Maybe thats just me, but I can’t take your word for it due to life experience myself.
Its hard for outsiders to really comprehend adoption from the inside. Many people would tell you I have no problems with or issues from adoption and that I am happy to be adopted. Because they don’t know. Well, now in my life they probably do know because I’m much more open about it now than I was for most of my entire life. When I was in college or high school or elementary school however, people would have had no clue of the reality that I was even adopted. Even now a classmate, probably wouldn’t get an ear load of adoptee rights activism and child placement reform unless he asked.
Out of curiosity what makes you think that God isn’t leading me and the movement to reform the industry for the better of child welfare, right now? What makes you think that this life I lead as a child welfare and adoptee rights activist ‘isn’t’ the life that was meant for me?
September 3, 2008 at 7:56 am
I am an adoptive mom of two special needs children. These children were 6 and 8 when I adopted them from foster care. Their mom was an heroin addict, then methadon, but was really never able to care for herself never mind 2 children. Dad was the same way. I agree there are many problems in the adoption, social services dept (I’m in FL of course) I can’t change the system in one day, but I believe that the only way out of foster care for children is through adoption. What choice do we have, leave them there?
September 6, 2008 at 12:42 am
Hi Lauren,
I would like you to please review this site. If you can find anywhere that i advocate against the adoption of foster care youth unless its against their consent, i’ll give you a gazillion dollars.
I was special needs too, but that was only because I am bi-racial. Which, i don’t agree with the labeling of. My race doesn’t make me handicapped or more “needy” than the next.
I also don’t think its necessary to label their mother or father in that fashion to justify your adoption, addiction is a disease. I don’t believe that the only way out of foster care is adoption, but thats just my opinion. I will be the first to say that foster children and youth should be priority in finding safe, permanent homes. They are the children who need the support of the community, and permanency. They are children who have been removed from their homes, hopefully for good reason. But they aren’t the priority of the American Adoption Industry, they get fed scraps compared to what they should be getting.
We have many choices.
Good day
September 22, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I found your blog and thought that the comments and the conversations where quite interesting. I can agree with you about many things like the horrible condition of the adoption system, children treated as products, and lack of overall consideration for them. The children should always come first and keeping families together should be a priority.
In the cases where keeping families together is not a possibility, like when the biological parents are not around anymore, I do think that adoption should be recognized as one of the options. Even with all of its flaws, many good things come from the system.
Separation trauma is a serious condition and adoptive parents should be aware of it and educate themselves so they can better prepare for the problems that separation trauma causes.
One of the things that really shocked me while reading this blog was the disrespect of other peoples opinions. I encourage you to accept comments that are rational and try not to embrace statements as one reader made on this blog, “You AP’s are no better than slave owners really and you deprive us of our human rights.” This statement is very unfair, childish, and narrow minded. As adoptions are complicated and happen for many different reasons, they should be discussed in a rational matter.
September 22, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Hey! Thanks for the comment!
I agree that things should be rational, but I also believe in freedom of speech. I try to keep it( my opinions) rational ( not always successfully ) and hope that my words are taken for what has been written. Others are accountable for their own posts here. All comments go through on my blog, i have not censored, have not deleted and will not edit any as of now nor do I plan to in the future unless it gets down right ridiculous. Adoptees have been edited and censored for too long in our history, and I won’t continue that cycle.
I think the differing opinions reflect the impact adoption has had on so many, some are harsher than others, some are sugarcoated more than others, and many are in between…thats life.
I come across many childish, unfair and narrow minded comments on a daily basis in the adoption communities and on my blog. If I censored all of them here, i would be censoring people across the board holding all different positions in adoption. I’ve been told to be grateful I wasn’t aborted, I don’t deserve my OBC, i should be ashamed of myself for even having this blog, I should have been aborted, I should be grateful for adoption I mean the list really goes on and on.
If you see something you disagree with, feel free to give us your opinion on why you feel differently and maybe we can all learn something
I’m going to leave all comments open for now, but thanks for your concern and thanks for your comment too.
October 25, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Hi,
1st off I would like to say that I really like your blog. I completely agree regarding the corruption involved in both domestic and international adoption. The systems do have to be reformed.
I have experienced the foster system first hand. I have just recently completed the adoption of my 5 year old nephew. He is a product of the foster system and my sister who could not put her crack pipe down long enough to care for her son. I was his foster mom for 2 years before the adoption became complete. But before coming to my home he had been placed 8 times (three of those times had been back with my sister). He is now the proud owner of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). I don’t agree that adoption is all bad. But the system in place is broken and needs to be fixed. In my opinion the foster system is primarly for the parents. The children just get dragged through it.
I am now also expecting my niece through foster care. My other sister has just been diagnosed with a mental illness. She will not take medication and as a result is not stable enough to raise my niece. My niece has just turned 2. She has been in the foster system for a year and a half and has already had 2 placements. I expect that I will have issues with RAD with her as well.
My reasons for the adoptions – to keep my family together. My nephew has contact with his mom and we are currently searching for his dad. I want him to know that part of him – it’s important! Guardianship has never been offered. With my nephew it was I adopt him or someone else will.
Before I knew that my nephew had been placed in the foster system I had toyed with the idea of International Adoption. I looked at China and then Vietnam. I struggled with the notion that there was a ton of corruption. I did not want to fund what looked like human trafficking. I did a lot of research on agencies I was considering and tried to pick the ones that seemed the lesser evil. What saved me was the call from a social worker regarding my nephew. That put all international adoption plans on hold. But after I got my nephew settled he wanted to know if he could have a brother or sister. I am 41 and my kids are adults. There was no way I was going to have another baby. So the International adoption thoughts began again. This time I looked at Haiti then Ethiopia. Having just gone through Foster care hell it seemed to me much easier to just pay money then to have to jump through hoops for the Department of Family Services. Again I struggled with issues regarding “buying children”. I thought I had found a pretty good agency in Ethiopia and was considering an HIV + child.
Then my niece came into the picture. I am now working on sponsering a 3 yr old Ugandan girl who is HIV+ and presumably an orphan. Would I like to adopt her – yes. Will I? I don’t know but if I can get her on her medications and help with good food and clean water then hopefully I have made a difference.
Just my little 2 cents!
Timmie
November 9, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Lori Tay’s comment on second choice speaks VOLUMES to me. . .I’m glad for advances in fertility too. You may end up with tooo much of your good thing but have at it. . it’s your body, your kids, your business. But to adopt with your second choice attitude magnifies the issue! Lori did you know that many famous serial killers were adopted?
Here is an unbiased forensics report:
http://www.crimemagazine.com/07/adoptionforensics,0919-7.htm
Also, men who comment murder in US have a disproprotionate percentage of adoptees versus non-adopted.
My guess is the “second choice” vibe kind of rolls over on the child. Ya Think?
November 20, 2008 at 12:01 am
I guess I’m awake this evening, suffering from insomnia…I’m reading a little further checking out your space and finding some horrible bitterness. It makes me sad. This has definately not been my experience with adoption. Not for my family at least… Not for my husband, not for my mother, or her brother, not for my step mom, not for my husband’s cousin’s kids, and hopefully not for my kids (of which I have both biological and adopted). Your site name does seem to fit more than I originally thought and for that reason I probably won’t search much longer. I do still hope that some of what you are trying to educate people about comes through. There is a large portion of your message that I know needs to be heard.
November 30, 2008 at 6:27 pm
The more I find out about adoption, the more anti-adoption I become.
December 2, 2008 at 5:39 pm
“China is forcing its women into surrenders of their children and isn’t showing any hope for growth in that department any time soon.”
Um, it’s not “China”. This is a deeply engrained Chinese value–please don’t express it as the government coercing parents, when it is a 1000+year old belief system at work here. You think if the government said tomorrow “girls are OK” that people would stop abandoning or killing girls in China? Dream on. Not that any of it is acceptable, but get a little historical context. Parents try for boys.
December 8, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Hello Gerhsom,
I came across your site by chance tonight, and I have to say, I.Am.So.Impressed. You are discussing everything I’ve pondered over the last year or so, and you’re far more eloquent about it.
As an adult adoptee it’s refreshing to see that there are more voices expressing the similar questions and trying to educate others about the darker side of adoption. It’s not all rainbows and forever family fairy tales. I don’t think a vast majority of the adoptive community (adoptive families) realize that we’re not little babies and children anymore.
I agree with you fully that more has to be done for the world community at large to enable poor countries to keep their children. The money spent on “rescuing” one child could be used more wisely for a family, for many families, for a whole community. I believe that strongly. You take away the children you take away a country’s future.
What makes it even more difficult is that I’m a Christian, so I hear of the “God inspired us/me to adopt.”, and it’s a Christian thing to do to care for the poor, widowed, and orphaned. I agree, it is something we are to do. But I struggle with how I don’t agree with how many, many Christians interpret the Bible on adoption.
Like you said, it doesn’t have to be a perfect world to make adoption a no-option. The challenge is that the adoption industry has become far more about meeting the demand (making money), and the people thinking there is no other way to help the children.
Keep up the great work! There’s a whole world out there that needs to know!
December 12, 2008 at 11:06 am
“Adoption is not the only way to help an orphan. How many children in orphanages do you really think are orphans?” I thought that this quote was interesting, how else should we help orphans? Have you ever thought of what your life would be like if you had not been adopted, if you had sat in an orphanage full of other children without one on one attention and love? Wouldn’t it be better for these children to have a home? And they might not really be orpans but if they are in an orphanage then it doesn’t make any difference because they are there and they need a family, granted they might have a family but why would you want to be with a family that does not want you enough to make sacrifices?
You also said “There are MUCH GREATER things that “humanitarians” could be doing for orphans with $20,000-$40,000 which they’re instead spending on ONE CHILD” I believe that this is true to an extent the issue here is not adopting the child it is the ridiculous costs that they put on these children that make it impossible to help them. The idea that helping one child is not good enough is just ridiculous. That one child that was adopted could change the world because it was placed with a loving family. We can never understand the things that parents went through to give up that child and in a perfect world that child wouldn’t have to be given up, but unfortunately that is not the case so what is wrong with helping, even if it is just one?
December 17, 2008 at 9:51 am
This article has a very pessimistic outlook on adoption, and only discusses the “issues” associated with adoption, but does not discuss any of the benefits of adoption. A well formed discussion/argument should always address the differentiating opinion. I’ll be glad to be the “opposing” viewpoint for you…lol
I’ll first start off with a little story that I think really pertains to this discussion here:
(Paraphrase)
“The tide had just receeded and there were millions of starfish stranded on a beach. A man was walking along this beach, stopping and picking up starfish and throwing them back into the water. I went up to the man and asked him: “What are you doing?”. He replied “I’m saving the starfish from dying”. Looking around at the millions of starfish in bewilderment I replied “What’s the point, look at them all!”. The man bent down and picked one up and threw it into the ocean and turned to me and said: “It made a difference to that one”.” (End Paraphrase)
I read this story a long time ago, and it has a profound meaning which can be used here to address one of the arguments I see. The comment that the cost of adoption could be better spent to help society as a whole. This article keeps talking about the “Bigger Picture”, just like the skeptic in the story. There were millions of starfish, and he couldn’t possibly save them all, so why save any? Whereas the man on the beach, realized that he might not be able to save them all but he could save a few. Sometimes when you focus too much on the big picture, you lose sight of the smaller picture. In this case that “small picture” is the 50,000 kids which are being adopted each year. Sure that still leaves millions of kids “in the system”, but for those 50,000 children it is going to make a difference. (even assuming the cynical view of adopted parents, even if 1 child has a better life, its made a difference to a human being).
Wow! I just came across this blog…interesting..but where to begin.
First, I want to thank “ILoveMyKids”, its caring people like you that do make a difference. It is making a difference to the “starfish” that you have adopted. I can tell from your posts how much you will care for your children. Don’t let the jaded adoptees here phase you on your adventure! And don’t ever for a second doubt that they are not “YOUR” children. The best parents in are the ones that consider their kids as “THEIR” children whether its in an adoption situation or not. Maybe if people put more of their efforts in educating people about the positives of adoption, more than 50,000 would occur a year? Maybe enough would occur so this is no longer a problem? You can probably see which “camp” I am in.
Second, I thought this was supposed to be an “open minded” forum/discussion? However, “ILoveMyKids” totally got “blasted” when she was trying to have a rational conversation; Pot/Kettle = Black? Open minded goes both ways. “DifferentStrokes” also got dismantled; using an ad hominem arguments is a logical discussion killer. So lets please try to leave out a commenters background, whether they were adopted or not or if their adoptive/birth parents. It should have no bearing in a logical discussion instead it brings different perspectives. It doesn’t mean that their comments are wrong.
However, I would like to point out a huge fallacy in the original post/argument. The original post discusses the corruption and questions the “non-profit” of most adoption agencies, and thus the money spent on an adoption is better (I’m assuming in terms of efficiency?) spent elsewhere to help the masses instead of a single child. The fallacy I see is the assumption that only the adoption agencies are corrupt? Does the author not believe that these global humanitarian relief funds are not corrupt? Was it not just a few years ago where Red Cross (The biggest humanitarian relief organization in the world was selling blood?). Have you ever seen how much the presidents of these relief funds make a year? What you forget is that most of these global humanitarian reflief funds are gigantic corporations. Way bigger than Holt (I believe the biggest internation adoption agency in the US?). Big enough that they dwarf Holt in size. If smaller adoption organizations such as Holt are corrupt and inefficient with costs, then to think that these mega sized relief funds are less corrupt and more efficient is a joke. Anyone who has worked for a mega-corporation knows how inefficient they are and how much “money” is lost into corporate red-tape.
A second fallacy I see here is using the fact that some adoptive parents are “less than ideal” as an argument against adoptions. I don’t disagree that some adoptive parents should be put in prison. The ones that adopt for free labor or abuse their kids is dispeccable. My heart goes out to any adoptee that had to go through this horror. What is being overlooked in this argument is many many orphaned kids are also treated the same way. So by not allowing adoption as proposed does not necessarily reduce the amount of child labor/abuse that is happening to orphaned children. While this may seem very inhuman, but if you really think about it, if parents are willing to pay $20-$50k per child for an adoption, how likely is it that they are going to abuse the child versus a foster parent who gets paid to keep a child, or an orphanage? Which is one advantage I see to the high costs and high aggrevation(whether it be due to corrupt reasons or not) of adoptions.
Again, my heart goes out to the adoptees that had less than ideal adoptions. However I have to think that “bad parents” are “bad parents” whether it is to adoptive children or biological children. I would hope that this is not an underlying purpose of this post, because those issues should be fought without regard to adoption. The only issue I see that is adoption specific with regards to parents are the stories I have heard about parents who “suppress” the adoption subject. Even with foreign adoptees (which is absurd because obviuosly the child is adopted!). This is probably the biggest mistake parents can make in the development of their children, however I think many parents do this with the best intentions in mind.
What is being overlooked is the fact that money doesn’t fix everything. Do you really think if we gave every orphan a million dollars that everything would be ok? No, they would still face the same problems and emotional issues as those kids who were adopted. Money may meet the physical needs of these children however, it will not repair the psychological or emotional needs that many adopted children face. I think the fact is, once a child is put into an orphanage it is too late, the damage has been done. Whether that child is adopted or not, they are going to have to face these issues at some point in their lives. What adoption sometimes (me being the optimist would like to think “most of the time” instead of “sometimes”) is the “love” aspect in a child/parent relationship. While this may not seem obvious, because adoption directly meets the physical needs, it does in a lot of cases also meets the needs of a child in terms of love and attention.
All the money in the world is not going to put an end to orphans. You can educate everyone in the world, but there will always be orphans. To leave them in the impersonal system versus trying to find loving parents through an imperfect adoption process is an easy answer. Yes, it sucks for the 1 of 4 kids or maybe its more like 3 of 4 kids who end up with a bad adoption?
I do disagree with the statement “Should money, or lack of determine your eligibility of parenthood?” as a reason to be “Anti-Adoption”. If a couple can not afford the cost of adoption (even if the costs are absurd), then they should not even consider having kids at all. To raise a child from birth through college will cost event he poorest family over $500,000 (utilizing time value of money) and the average family $1,000,000. So if a couple can’t afford $20-$50k, then they definitely can’t afford to foot the bill to raise a child. (http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articles/cost-of-raising-a-child-the-ultimate-investment-51618.aspx) There are plenty of reliable sources to support this.
Based on the comments above, I question as to how anyone can be “anti-adoption”, and the focus should be put into other real problems:
1. I am anti-corruption, whether it be in adoption agencies or global humanitarian aid efforts.
2. I am anti-child abuse/labor
3. Bad parenting
If you battle these three major issues, what is left in this “Anti-Adoption” debate? These issues are not exclusive to adoption, they are issues that every person faces, so getting rid of adoption does not fix these problems. Continuing with the “Global picture” argument presented in this article, if these are the battles you are fighting then you should fight the problems for everyone and not just adoptees.
December 19, 2008 at 3:37 pm
You keep saying “large scale” and I wonder why that is the criteria you measure adoption against? As an adoptive parent and the brother of an adopted sister (and adopted only as a truthful statement of where she came from, she is my sister and that’s all there is to that), I look at the individuals that are helped. My sister grew up in a family that loved her and wanted her. Maybe her birth mother, natural mother, whatever term doesn’t offend, could have raised her but realistically in that time, with society’s views of unwed mothers, and her medical issues, I doubt it. Our son was taken from his mother 2 days after his birth when she finally noticed his heroine withdrawal and took him to the hospital. She hasn’t seen him since, by choice, and signed off on the adoption in accordance with her country’s laws and the Hague Convention. He was in an orphanage, a nice one, but I believe for him living with us in our family is a better option. I know for my family, adoption is a good thing, a normal way to build a family, and not some heroic gesture or child-saving act. As parents we get sooo much from a child, adopted or not, and I hope our child benefits, too. Abstractly, helping every child sounds nice but helping one child is doable.
I think it would help many in the anti-adoption movement to step back from the “Rage against the machine” mentality and look at the small picture. Think globally, sure, but act locally.
ps. My wife and I aren’t infertile, nor were my parents, and an adopted child was not our “last resort”. Some people are just jerks, don’t let them get to you.
December 19, 2008 at 10:49 pm
and PJ i stepped back from the Rage against the machine” mentality quite a while ago. I’ve looked at the big, the small and the medium pictures and stand firm in my positions against adoption and its industry.
I definitely don’t think all adopters are infertile.
December 30, 2008 at 9:23 am
PJ wrote about his son that “He was in an orphanage, a nice one, but I believe for him living with us in our family is a better option.”
But EVEN BETTER than that would have been to grow up in his own country, where his culture and language would have been kept intact. There ARE more options besides institutions on one hand and international adoption on the other… but so many prospective/adoptive parents choose to only see two.
PJ has already decided that adoption is “a good thing” for his son… I wonder what his son will decide for himself when he is older?
December 30, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Sang-Shil,
How do you know there was an “EVEN BETTER” option? How do you know that PJ’s son would have ended up in one of these “EVEN BETTER” options? You Don’t. Why keep using “what-if” and “could have been”, the problem is none of these are concrete statements. The problem is you have the time to sit around and come up with these thousands of iterations of potential “what-if” scenarios that in your mind seem much better. The problem is while you have the luxury of sitting in front of a computer, there are kids out there in orphanages. PJ got of his butt and did something about it, meanwhile what was the last thing you did for one of those orphan kids? Please don’t tell me “I am making people more aware”, because frankly that kid in the orphanage doesn’t give a rats behind.
You berate adoptive parents for assuming there are only two alternatives, yet you assume that the other options are “Better”. Prove to us that the other options are better. A good place to start would be to start listing these supposed “EVEN BETTER” options. Followed up with statistics on how you are going to prove that these other options are truely “EVEN BETTER” than successful adoptions as PJ tried to describe.
Sure its easy for hurt adoptees to lob “missles/projectiles” and success stories, I can’t say I blame them, as the old addage goes: “Misery Loves Company”.
December 30, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Hi, Gershom!
I just watched your YouTube and was so excited to learn that YOU were part of the First ARD!!!!
I actually found this blog from blogcatalog. On my own blog, I am adding a link to your site! (please let me know if you want the link removed.)
I am excited to read more of your blog & maybe I’ll get to see you at the Philly ARD!
December 31, 2008 at 8:01 am
InMySeoul,
As to your first question, there is quite a bit of existing research that says if a child can grow up in a loving/stable home in her/his original country rather than a completely different country, that scenario is indeed better. I don’t have time to do your research for you; look for it yourself.
As to your second question, you’re right. I don’t know if PJ’s son would have ended up in one of those situations… and I never claimed that he would. Similarly, neither does anyone know that he couldn’t have — which is my larger point.
December 31, 2008 at 3:08 pm
“PJ has already decided that adoption is “a good thing” for his son… I wonder what his son will decide for himself when he is older?”
PJ’s son’s opinion on adoption is going to be affected way more by who his adoptive parents are than what country he was raised in. Otherwise (in general, not every case) wouldn’t the Anti-Adoption be mostly supported by foreign adoptees and the Pro-Adoption be mostly domestic adoptees?
I don’t know if any statistics exist, but it seems like a pretty good mix between the two. However, if you look at the break up of support based on their perseption of their parents, I think you will see a very good correlation. Obviuosly adoptees who think their parents were “not good parents” are more than likely to not support adoption, and those that were raised by “good parents” are more than likely to support adoption…
Lets look at the statistics (Im sorry, Im a sucker for statistics). If PJ had not adopted, his son stayed in his home country he would have had a 50/50 chance of either being in a “loving/stable home” or not. You may not think that its that simple, but like you so aptly pointed out there is no way to know so it truely is a 50/50 chance because it either happens or not.
So as such, So it comes down to two options:
1. With PJ who were assuming is providing a “loving/stable home”
or
2. 50/50 chance that he is in a “loving/stable home” (but at least he his native county.
It appears to me that the “Larger Point” is picking Option #2?
In the world of statistics where you are discussing anything that matters (ie money, or humans in this case) I’ll reference a very wise man who once said “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”. I’ll take the guarantee #1 over the 50/50 chance in #2 every time. (especially if you agree that a “healthy/stable home” far outweighs the benefits of being raised in your native country.)
December 31, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I think we need to answer is ‘why’ is a child is placed in an orphanage, we need to prevent children from being in orphanages in the first place. There was a recent story just in time for Christmas of a young man being reunited with his mother after 40 years. Long story short, the mother was Vietnamese and the father of the child was American, the father went back to America and young mother had no one to help her, so she ‘gave’ the baby to someone else to care for him. She never forgot him and even tried to reclaim him after giving him away, but couldn’t find the Vietnamese family that took him. We need to help mothers (and fathers) before they are in a vulnerable position of others taking advantage of the ‘better option’ of adoption.
December 31, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I agree with you Renee. Right now most people are not aware or willing to acknowledge that there are other reasons for the continuation of adoption. There has to be a closer examination of the core causes of children being abandoned and put up for adoption. And people need to be informed. Right now the adoption systems are mainly like using a band aid for a broken bone sort of diagnoses.
January 1, 2009 at 8:27 am
InMySeoul — Just because there are two options does not mean that there is a 50/50 chance, just as having four options does not mean that there is a 25% chance, etc. Unlike with flipping a coin, there are other factors in adoption that sway the likelihood of an event happening (or not happening) far from mere chance. Just because some things are uncertain or can’t be known doesn’t mean that we can discount the things that we *do* know.
Renee — You hit the nail exactly, squarely, precisely on the head. I couldn’t agree more.
January 4, 2009 at 3:35 pm
[You may not think that its that simple, but like you so aptly pointed out there is no way to know so it truely is a 50/50 chance because it either happens or not. ]
But when a child is adopted, you don’t KNOW if they will be given a loving home or not. You. Don’t. KNOW.
We have had this discussion before – money does not equal a good parent, yet it is a great screening tool – but STILL who is to say that parent WON’T end up being abusive?
Money guarantees nothing except FOR adoption itself – not the home, not the parent in 20 years, not the values or traditions. It does not guarantee anything past the approval of an adoptive environment. Whether that adoptive environment is “good” or not in providing the essentials to life – it’s a random matchup.
January 6, 2009 at 8:32 am
I see a false dicotomy here. The choices aren’t adoption or not. If a child is already in an orphanage, the point is to get that child OUT of institutionalized care. Yes, it’s important to solve the problems of why kids up institutionalized. It’s also important to each child to have a family. Ideally, that’s the child’s birth family, if not them, then another family, well screened, in that child’s native country. But if not that, then a family in another country is still preferable to an institution.
Even the best institution (and let’s face it, very few of them qualify as “best”) is a poor substitute for the love of a parent, be that parent biological/birth/first parent, whatever term you like, or adoptive.
January 6, 2009 at 9:23 pm
“The choices aren’t adoption or not.”
But isn’t that whatever EVERYONE has been trying to tell us adoptees? That it’s either orphanage or adoption?
January 7, 2009 at 5:45 am
I’m not “everyone”, and I’m not telling you how to feel. You know the situation of your adoption more than anyone else.
I’m simply stating how I feel and think. Once a child is in an institution, it’s too late for that child to be concerned about vast societal issues, that child needs a family and her/his loss has happened. ridding the world of adoption does not undo that loss. Adoption doesn’t undo the loss either, but at least it provides a small gain over life in an institution.
My kids were in orphanages. I took them out of them. I donate time and money (I’m not saying talent, because, hey, I’m not that talented) towards helping hte kids still there.
I can do nothing in their homeland to prevent kids from winding up in orphanages, anymore than King Kanute could stop the tides. I can simlpy as another poster said help my “starfishes”.
I hope the world changes, I hope all kids have the opportunity to grow, well loved, happy and healthy in their original families. It breaks my heart to know that my children have to live with the pain of being abandoned, and I cry for her birth family that will never know their smiles or laughter, and who, had their circumstances been better might have kept their babies. I also hope that in the end, both my children and their birth families will agree that life with me is a better result than life in an institution. Not as good as life with a birth family that wanted them, not as good as an adoptive family in their homeland, but better than life in an instition.
I’m willing to be the next to last best option for my girls, since for THEM, not for all adoptees, they were already at the worst of all options.
January 7, 2009 at 5:54 am
Adoptee rights said:
‘What does adoption do to help poverty stricken communities and countries? How does it help end the poverty? What is it doing for the “people” left behind in the country the “adoptee” comes from?”
Why is adoption expected to fix these things?
January 10, 2009 at 2:20 pm
AnhuiMama – I am adoptee rights and gershom depending on what accout i’m signed in and at the moment i can’t tell which one will pop up so i’m just making that clear that that was my statment that i’m replying to roflol.
I don’t believe adoption is expected to “fix” those things. However i am not the one who is preeching adoption as a humanitarian service like so many do. I do however believe that we, as a whole collective community and world should be working towards helping the children who need help. the ones in those situations i mentioned above, DO need help, however i unlike many in support of adoption don’t believe adoption is doing this. I do not see it as a humanitarian service, i see it as a service built on catering to the needs of the adoptive parents for they are the only ones who truly benefit from my eyes.
There are many other ways to help the children mentioned above, and their families without adoption. And help them on a much larger scale than adopting one and bringing to the so called land of milk and honey. Adoption doesn’t do that tho and that was my point
If its to “help” save a child from a crappy life, why not save many w/ different routes than just a selected few so the aparents can fulltill their dreams of having a child too. If the aparents dreams were taken out of the equation i wonder how many would still be willing to pay that much money to help some children out that they will never be able to change their name and call their “own.” The ownership factor that comes into play with adoption is very harmful in my opinion.
January 7, 2009 at 9:34 am
This is a very interesting discussion. I am an adoptive parent to two daughters from China. I agree wholeheartedly that ideally, I should not be lucky enough to parent these two fabulous girls. In an ideal world, they would have stayed with their natural families, or been adopted by another family in China. But this is not an ideal world, and my daughters each spent over a year in an orphanage. One has a congenital condition that would make her a second-class citizen in China, and accounted for her complete lack of care from the orphanage where she spent the first 18 months of her life. Yes, I think the policies are wrong that prevent Chinese families from having more than one child. Yes, I think Chinese culture should treasure all children, even if they are considered less than “perfect.” But until every child finds a home somewhere, I don’t think that we should put a stop to finding families for these children, even if it means that they must cross borders.
In response to the person who talked earlier about adoptive parents lying to their children and keeping them from their birthfamilies, I don’t think this is the case with many adoptive parents. We do spend a lot of time talking with our daughters about their birthfamilies, and we will help them try to find their birthfamilies, if it’s at all possible (difficult in China, due to the fact that it’s illegal for parents to “give their child up for adoption”). We’ve already hired local investigators to try and do this, but it is challenging in China because of the fear of legal entanglements, and we’ve made little progress. I think it’s important for our daughters to have as much information as possible about their past and their birthfamilies.
January 8, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I think what AnhuiMama is saying is that after a child is in an orphanage, it kind of becomes a moot point whether or not to adopt, because what is the other choice? They are already in the orphanage and in taking China as an example, the parents will not be coming back for the child, as there are staggering penalties to both having an unregistered child and abandoning a child. This child’s options ARE adoption or orphanage and that really is NOT an option. I am of the belief that if a child cannot be raised by their first family, then being raised by a family in their native land is ideal. However, if no one in their home country is willing or able to adopt them then IA needs to exist. Western Adoptive parents are not going to be able to impact 3,000 years of cultural bias towards boys, nor are they going to dictate the policies of a communist nation. That being said, we DO have a responsibility to honour our children’s culture… not just in words and dinners at the Mandarin… but in actions as well. From learning the language, to culture camps to homeland visits, etc. While this may be a poor substitute for actually living in their native land, it is the best most of us can do. Most adoptive parents who adopt internationally are very conscious that our children may one day feel a disconnect from their original countrymen and it breaks our hearts, but we will (at least I will) support my daughter in any way I can.
January 8, 2009 at 7:01 pm
To the poster that said Romania had a child care system to be proud of and that’s why they no longer internationally adopt, I have to ask how you know this?
I’ve heard (admittedly third-hand) that there are true horror stories to be told regarding Romanian children in institutions.
Gershom, I’m curious about this comment: “Nor do i believe that all children should stay with their natural parents, in the small percentage of cases where parents are neglectful and not worthy of parenting, the children shouldn’t stay with them. All children deserve a safe place to live, but does that mean they need to be adopted? Nope, not in my eyes. ”
Okay, then in your opinion, what to kids that can’t stay with their parents need? An institution? Foster parents?
January 10, 2009 at 2:12 pm
ANhuiMama
In my opinion and i’ve seen it done before, its possible to care for a child without having to adopt them and exploit their rights. The system in place today called “adoption” isn’t respecting nor honoring the rights of the child who is being adopted therefore i will never support it until adoptees are put first.
This doesn’t mean i think children who can’t stay with their natural parents for whatever reason ( because yes i understand it isn’t a perfect world ) should have their rights violated by being adopted, i believe they should be honored and intact while being cared for by replacement parents.
January 10, 2009 at 5:49 pm
AnhuiMama: “Why is adoption expected to fix these things?”
Because as Gershom said, so many people see it as a charitable act. For the little ones in orphanages RIGHT NOW, yes of course they NEED to be adopted. No one is saying they shouldn’t be. But for every child that is taken out of the orphanage, another will take their place. In the end adoption does nothing to address the root source and is feeding into the system because it isn’t helping to prevent these little children from ending UP in the orphanage to begin with.
“I’m not “everyone”, and I’m not telling you how to feel. You know the situation of your adoption more than anyone else.”
I did not say you *were* tellng me – or us – how to feel. You said “the choices aren’t adoption or not.” But clearly, this is what the general impression is FROM SOCIETY. Adoption or not. Abortion or adoption. Starvation or adoption. Abuse/neglect or adoption. Poverty or adoption. The list goes on.
Funny how no one ever mentions family preservation or adoption. Because most of these kids are NOT orphans. They just happened to be left behind BY family and then relabeled as “orphans.”
In my adoption, personally speaking, my parents gained everything. I gained the adoptive side, but I lost the biological side. Was it a fair trade? I don’t know. But what did the biological side “gain” after losing me to adoption? Nothing, really.
So what exactly does adoption do to help out in the end? It takes a child out of the orphanage. And then another child ends up in the orphanage. But then that child gets adopted too. But then yet another child ends up there. And then what?
January 10, 2009 at 10:08 pm
We have come an interesting way as a society if we can find something wrong with a child without a family (or without one willing/able) to raise him growing up in a family rather than an institution. Wow!
Of course it is horrendously devastating that some parents don’t have enough money to care for their children. Of course it is inconceivable that children are stolen from loving families and sold. Of course it is always best for a family to remain intact if at all possible. But bad stuff happens that disrupts the ideal, as it has from the beginning of time, and I can’t believe anyone would suggest that ADOPTION is what should be stopped in all of this. Unreal.
It’s like saying marriage should be outlawed because divorce hurts kids.
I’m sorry that there are adults who wish they hadn’t been adopted, but there are plenty people who wish they had different lives/upbringings/parents/countries of origin/whatever, so I’m willing to say that adoption isn’t always the root cause of malcontent in adoptees. And even if it sometimes is, I’m willing to take the chance.
January 11, 2009 at 12:41 am
1) There are many children who have been adopted, whose parents wanted to and should have raised them. It is my belief that manipulation, child theft and outright trafficking, coercion and forced surreneders ( poverty, laws, soieital pressure ) shouldn’t be happening.
2) If you can’t see the wrong in putting prices on chlidrens head according to their age and race, to altering birth certificates, to labeling children special needs because they’re not white, to sealing vital records from adoptees then i’m wondering if you even understand what “best interests” of the child is?
In all honesty your comment dismisses the possibility of any “wrong” in adoption and that is terribly foolish to believe there is no wrong in this system. It will only separate you from any child you have adopted in the future and i hope by then, when he/she understands the institution she is a part of, that you have opened your eyes a bit wider.
of course not horrendously devastating enough for you to see anything wrong with it as long as the child gets adopted?
If you found out your child was stolen would you look at them in the eyes and say “bad things happen, and it has since the beginning of time, i can’t believe why you would think it should be stopped in all of this”
you know what, here is a test for everyone after reading that line, this is almost humorous to me. Can anyone at all who is reading this blog name any other situation in where an entire body of people who have been violated are expected to be grateful for those violations?
I will NEVER be grateful for sealed records, nor will I be grateful my name was changed w/out my consent, nor will i be greatful that a price was put on my head and that I was special needs because i was only 1/2 white. I had a mother who was very very emotionally capable of raising me but didn’t have the finances and i will never be greateful she was ever in the position of having to surrender me to the foster care system feeling that was her only option at the time because nobody reached out a hand to help her keep me.
No child, nor adopted adult should ever be dismissed in the way Ljsa has dismissed the truth to many adoptees circumstances surroudnign their adoptions. To brush that under the rug in such a “as if” fashion makes me question your ability to have compaission and truly understand what the best interests of children really are.
Removing a child from a bad situation ( such as the foster care system or an orphanage ) doesn’t mean they should have to settle for less than just because they came from shitty place already. Know what i mean?
I hope so.
And no its not like saying marriage should be outlawed because divorce hurts, and i don’t believe that IS a saying. Because the pain happens after the unity that was chosen by two people.
That is in my opinion no comparison to a child losing his or her mother/father/identity/vital records/clan and beyond.
How could you possibly think that adoption, isn’t the root cause of my disgust for the treatment of adoptees? You yourself are on my blog showing your low priorities for the honoring of our equality. You yourself have proven to me that i have now come across another person who doesn’t believe adoptees should be treated like the rest of the citizens because we had a bad begining. You yourself have shown that you think we should have to settle for less than because we were “saved” from the horrible life of an orphanage or foster home. Yet you somehow come to the conclusion, that my malcontent for this treatment is coming from soemthing else? Why because i’m not grateful enough for YOU?
And even if sometimes this malcontent happens, this poster is willing to take that chance. Of course she is, her rights aren’t the ones being walked on. She’s not the one losing a child. She isn’t the one who is being treated like 2nd class. Of COURSE you are willing to take that chance, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And that is the problem, one of the biggest problems i see in reform. Getting those who have nothing to lose, to understand and see what it feels like from the losing end. Maybe then they’d step back and think about it for a minute and maybe then they’d see that yes, the industry of adoption IS my root of malcontent. And is the entire reason this blog exists.
January 11, 2009 at 8:43 am
Most adoptive parents will continue to give you grief because they are the winners in adoption. The winner rarely has any desire to change how the game is played.
But keep up the good work, there are a few adoptive parents who are listening and learning.
January 11, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“We have come an interesting way as a society if we can find something wrong with a child without a family (or without one willing/able) to raise him growing up in a family rather than an institution. Wow!”
You are missing the point. Many children DO have families that are either UNABLE to (due to LACK OF SUPPORT) or who have had their children taken without consent. A child that is an orphanage but who has remaining family is NOT an orphan. Period.
“Of course it is horrendously devastating that some parents don’t have enough money to care for their children.”
So why aren’t we working to change that? Why are we saying “Well it’s just too bad for them, but the damage is done and so now we should just look to adopt”? We should be trying to PREVENT this from happening!
“Of course it is inconceivable that children are stolen from loving families and sold.”
It does happen.
“Of course it is always best for a family to remain intact if at all possible. But bad stuff happens that disrupts the ideal, as it has from the beginning of time, and I can’t believe anyone would suggest that ADOPTION is what should be stopped in all of this. Unreal.”
Is that “bad stuff” from Fate, or from people making personal choices? Is that “bad stuff” from situations that could be prevented with help, or is it beyond us – as a society – to help out other families? Everything comes from a decision. We should be helping them out, not taking advantage of those situations. Obviously in China, it’s a different tradition and cultural expectation. But in terms of Korea, Vietnam, Guatemala? Why should those countries keep having to export children overseas because they lack economic support?
“It’s like saying marriage should be outlawed because divorce hurts kids.”
What? How is that even a comparable analogy?
“I’m sorry that there are adults who wish they hadn’t been adopted, but there are plenty people who wish they had different lives/upbringings/parents/countries of origin/whatever, so I’m willing to say that adoption isn’t always the root cause of malcontent in adoptees. And even if it sometimes is, I’m willing to take the chance.”
Sigh. I don’t buy into the whole “this is where you were meant to be.” Some of it has to do with SOMETIMES wishing I had not been adopted, but a lot of it has to do with what people tell me I should feel. I mean, is it really that awful for me to suggest that I had the authentic birthright to be raised by my original mother?
Why won’t anyone admit that I had that right, JUST because adoption occurred to me?
Oh, I know why! Because adoption = better life by default! Right?!?
This is why: http://sisterheping.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/fate-by-choice/
Anyone who has common sense will agree that in most situation, a natural mother and child should remain together IF – I say – IF there is no sign of abuse/neglect.
But in adoption? Hah! Everyone’s attitude changes in adoption. Nope, the best interest of the child is to be adopted, no argument there because adoption is a win-win-win for ALL. Right? If adoption has to occur, then OBVIOUSLY a child cannot stay with his mother. We, as a society, assume that the mother was unable to parent JUST BECAUSE the child happened to be adopted.
That is such a tiring misconception.
January 11, 2009 at 12:39 pm
[...] “I’m sorry that there are adults who wish they hadn’t been adopted, but there are plenty peopl… [...]
January 11, 2009 at 6:36 pm
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4508&page=1
Here is a dose of well researched reality for those interested in International Adoption.
January 12, 2009 at 6:01 am
Thanks for the response Gershom, and for posting my comments. I agree that there is much to be done to protect adoptee rights, altering birth certificates is wrong, refusing to release info to the adopted person is wrong, pressuring birth parents be it through social or economic pressure is wrong.
I don’t agree that parenting children without benefit of a legal status protects the child though.
So while I’ll never be anti-adoption, perhaps we can find a middle ground at pro-adoption reform?
January 12, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Anhuimama,
I’ve been discussing the exact same points as you for some time now. The root definition of Adoption is not wrong, and for some reason, some people can’t seem to accept that fact.
Every one of the “evils” that is continuously listed by the “anti-adoption” as a reason to get rid of adoption are not inherent faults of adoption, but due to the faults of mankind. This corruption, conceitedness, and evils of adoption that the “Anti-Adoption” movement is trying to get rid of, will be the exact same corruption, conceitedness, and evils that they will see arise in any alternative they suggest because humans will be involved in any alternative. These evils are not mutually exclusive to adoption. They are exclusive to anything humans do.
What seems to be the underlying response I have received and read is if even 1 child is hurt by adoption, that adoption as a whole is a failure. There seems to be no recognition for the numerous positive adoptions. So the “logical” reaction I have been presented by the “Anti-adoption” movement has been to scrap the adoption movement (ignoring the positive/successful adoptions) and leaving the children in a “system”. So to attempt to prevent hurting a single child through adoption, this movement proposes to decrease the potential quality of life of numerous children (those who would have otherwise been in a successful adoption).
Gershom,
I’m confused by your statement:
“entire body of people who have been violated are expected to be grateful for those violations? ”
I am part of this body, and I don’t know who you feel expects you to be grateful? I can honestly say that I have never felt that I am “expected” to be grateful for being adopted. Is it by your parents or by your society that you think “expects” you to be grateful? Frankly, I haven’t heard any of the adoptive parents here say anything that even resembles that type of statement either.
Thank You Mei-Ling!!
“For the little ones in orphanages RIGHT NOW, yes of course they NEED to be adopted. No one is saying they shouldn’t be. But for every child that is taken out of the orphanage, another will take their place.”
BUT YOU ARE SAYING THEY SHOULDN’T BE!!!! Isn’t that the definition of “Anti-Adoption” (non-adoption) (sorry for the caps, but I’m banging my head on the wall right now). So why are you proposing to stop adoptions???????????If this is really how you feel then wouldn’t the “fix” be to continue adoptions while at the same time starting a movement to slow down the number of children being put into orphanages? Stopping adoptions does not fix the problem of incoming children that you mention above.
As a final comment, maybe you should rethink the title of this movement? I think its a little bit misleading. I think your movement is more than just “Anti-Adoption”. Because I know that you guys suggest things to reduce the number of children being orphaned and such, which in reality has nothing to do with adoption? Its just a suggestion?
January 12, 2009 at 9:12 pm
“Every one of the “evils” that is continuously listed by the “anti-adoption” as a reason to get rid of adoption are not inherent faults of adoption, but due to the faults of mankind. This corruption, conceitedness, and evils of adoption that the “Anti-Adoption” movement is trying to get rid of, will be the exact same corruption, conceitedness, and evils that they will see arise in any alternative they suggest because humans will be involved in any alternative. These evils are not mutually exclusive to adoption. They are exclusive to anything humans do.”
Awesome, InMySeoul. You just proved a point that I’ve been arguing about for the past 2 years regarding adoption. IT IS NOT CAUSED BY FATE, BUT BY HUMAN CHOICE & CONSEQUENCE.
“Is it by your parents or by your society that you think “expects” you to be grateful? Frankly, I haven’t heard any of the adoptive parents here say anything that even resembles that type of statement either.”
It is the general impression of society, AKA the phrase “God only knows what would have happened to you, you could have been aborted/starved/beaten/malnourished” etc etc
“If this is really how you feel then wouldn’t the “fix” be to continue adoptions while at the same time starting a movement to slow down the number of children being put into orphanages? Stopping adoptions does not fix the problem of incoming children that you mention above.”
Er, I didn’t say that to confuse you, InMySeoul. I think your comment is directed at Gershom. I do not think adoption should be stopped in its entirety but I think we should be ceasing it as much as possible WHILE allowing orphanaged children to be adopted and go to families.
“Because I know that you guys suggest things to reduce the number of children being orphaned and such, which in reality has nothing to do with adoption?”
These children are orphaned so that they may be adopted. It’s the legal of “orphaning” them by fabrication. They aren’t really orphans.
January 12, 2009 at 9:45 pm
I saw my mistake too late mei-ling. I mis-read your previous comments I’m sorry.
January 21, 2009 at 8:53 am
[...] Comment on Anti-Adoption? by InMySeoul – as a reason to be “Anti-Adoption”. If a couple can not afford the cost of adoption (even if the costs are absurd), then they should not even consider having kids at all. To raise a child from birth through college will cost event he … [...]
February 17, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Being a parent may not be a right, but billions of people arround the world do it with little or no qualifications all the time. If you are a character in some disney movie, stolen from the arms of loving parents and sold into slavery accross the ocean, then you are by far the exception not the rule.
I am not stupid there is real evil in some of the child trafficing that goes on. But whether international or domestic, the fact is the overwhelming majority of children available for adoption were not ripped from loving families. They are some teenagers accident, the wrong gender in the wrong culture, … A multitude of reason – none of which fall into the category of ripped out of the arms of a loving family. Virtually the whole adoptive community grasps that none of this is an adopted childs fault, yet somehow that ends up resting heavily on their shoulders. If you want my sympathy for that – you have it. But get a grip. Alot of aspects of life suck. You do not have to be adopted to get raped, mugged, experience prejudice or poverty, or … Do all kids deserve loving families absolutely. But in the real world often that does not happen. Do some adoptive parents suck – absolutely. Is there some fundimental difference between adoptive parents and biological parents – nope. You think every bio parent loves their children. Or even if they do that, that is enough ? Bio children suffer evil treatment in droves everyday. No matter how bad your experience as an adoptee was, there is some bio kid that hass had it much worse. Sometimes life sucks. Should we work hard to quash many bad things that occur in adoption – certainly – while your at it, we can cure hunger, poverty, and aides and cancer. But in the real world unless you are one of the rare children stolen in the middle of the night from loving parents, do you really want to be stuck with a parent who chose to give you away ? Whether for money, or cultural pressures or … Their are very few excuses that are good enough for abandoning your child. Why are you hung up on this mythical biological bond created by the semi-random re-arragement of dna? I am my parents child, but not because of race or genes. I am who they raised me to be – even when that is not what they really wanted, I am a rejection of values or attributes of theirs I chose not to share – nothing particularly biological. I see parts of myself in my children – despite the fact that we are not of the same race. Unlike many adoptive parents my wife and I made the choice to adopt if we ever had kids before we married. Yes, all children deserve parents for whom they were the first choice – but I do not grasp how an infertile couple that adopted as a last resort is so inferior to some 15 year old who thought her boy friend would not love her if she did not go all the way ? Lots of things about adoption are broken. Maybe their should not be a right to be a parent, but people become parents for both good and bad reasons all the time, and there are both good and bad parents with little regard for the reasons or the means in which they became parents. If you wiped out all adoptions tomorrow you would make life better for few and worse for alot more. You and other adoptive children (as well as many bio children) are entitled to better, Your pain is real (as is that of victims of …). But you are seeing everything as black and white. Adoption is always and entirely evil, and by implication biological parenting always good – or it would be if …. Tell me I need to be more sensitive to my childrens culture – guilty, that I can never fully understand what it is like to be adopted, I accept that. I can not know fully grasp what it is like to be in your shoes, nor can you fully comprehend mine. Regardless share the good and the bad of your experiences – tell me what I need to be a better parent, but condemn my choices as evil because you are unhappy with your life – not interested.
If we are going to live in the world of hypotheticals, someday you will consider having children. Is it better for you to bring a new bio kid into this world when somewhere out there is a child that may well die if you do? You don’t get a magic wand, you have to live in the world as it is, you can work to change it, you can demand that it be different, but that will not change it. So what do you do ? Bring a new bio kid into the world, raise it, love it, see yourself in its eyes, while somewhere in the world some other unwanted kids will suffer and die. Adoption may suck, but death is a pretty big bummer too.
February 20, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Wow as an adoptee, I’m glad to see you state you do not represent all adoptee’s on this site!
I know my birth family and I am thrilled I wasn’t raised with them. Did I have attachment issues? Yes. Was reunion difficult? Absolutely. But my Mom was meant to be my Mom. My birth Mom told me when she found out she was pregnant she felt she was carrying me for someone else. I believe my adopted Mom was the best thing to happen to me and vice versa.
As for being a guardian verses adoption? How many foster children have you talked to? My brother and sister were raised in foster care, and they were devastated when our birth mom refused to let their foster parents adopt them. They had the same foster parents their whole lives, but they would have done anything to be legally adopted. They wanted that, like so many foster children. My husband and I foster, and this is a common feeling. These children want to be adopted. They ask you to adopt them. What would you say to them?
As for adoption, my husband and I are also adopting internationally. We’ve worked in the developing world, with orphanages and these children ask you when they will be adopted. They will tell you they want a Mommy ad Daddy. What would you say to them?
There is something to be said for adoptees raised in the privileged world, deciding adoption in the developing world is wrong.
There’s also something to be said for those adopted, to decide adoption shouldn’t exist.
I wasn’t raised in an ideal home. Until my adopted father left I was abused. However, there are millions of bio parents abusing their children as well. My story is no more heartbreaking because I was adopted.
Also, I’ve yet to meet a single adopted parent who thinks they’re doing an act of charity. The process to adopt is gruelling, if they wanted to feel charitable donating money would be easier. I think the perception it’s an act of charity is one society labels them with. As a fellow adoptee. aren’t we tired of labels?
You want to change adoption? Change social structures.It is not up to just adopted parents to donate time and money as suggested all of us should be working towards a better world. So what are you going to do to help those in need? How are you going to help women and children’s rights in the developing world? What are you willing to do to help those in need within your country?
What are each and everyone one of you who are fighting for a world without adoption willing to do so adoption need not be the best solution to a terrible problem in the world that exists today? How many children are you willing to sacrifice until an even “better” solution exists?
February 23, 2009 at 9:44 am
Hey, thanks for stopping by Jlyn..i see we disagree on some points.
Lets see if we can do it respectfully to the end shall we? For some reason adoptees who feel different than myself often find my views threatening and aren’t able to respectfully disagree with me, but you, i think you’re different. I think we’ll do it.
Excellent that you feel you were meant to be with your adopters. I would like restate however, that my mission or voice on this blog isn’t to resist the reality that some children cannot and should not be raised by their natural parents. That it is very clear to me some biological parents shouldn’t be raising their children.
What I advocate here for mostly ( when i’m not re-iterating my positions and defending them ) is the fair and justified treatment of adopted people or people not being raised by their natural families and being raised in families they weren’t born from. Because its the process of adoption, that is violating our rights regardless of how much we, you or I love our adoptive parents, families etc. Regardless of if we feel where we should have been raised, that needs to be set aside for the discussion of ethical treatment of adoptees.
I too was in foster care, and i have spoken with many adoptees, and if you take a look around my blog a little deeper than I feel you have, you’ll see the only group of people I advocate for being adopted for FIRST and that i believe should have priority over all other adoptions, are those of the children in the foster care system. Of course I believe they should be treated differently during the process, and believe that guardianship should take preference to it.
Perhaps if your brother and sister hadn’t been told “adoption” was the answer they wouldn’t have wanted to be adopted.
Children’ don’t randomly wake up one day and “want” to be adopted w/out being told it. What they do, however is if they’re in a shitty family, or foster care system situation, they “want” a stable family to be theirs. That is possible with guardianship. Absolutely.
Alas RL calls and i have to go, but i’ll finish replying to your message later
February 26, 2009 at 3:16 am
I know that you like to find homes like these for pregnant women and their infants. It’s a maternity home in Texas where they help the mother care for her baby with health care, parenting skills, and job assistance up to two years after birth.
http://www.thematernityhome.org/about.html
“Annunciation Maternity Home is a free, full service home for young women (age 14 and up) who are in crisis pregnancies. We offer long-term care that begins when the resident arrives and ends only when she and her baby have a safe environment in which to return.
The home is staffed by caring professionals who are advised by an knowledgeable and caring board of directors. We make no religious demands on those who come to us for help.
We serve the needs of teens and homeless women experiencing crisis pregnancies. The need for safe housing in a loving, nurturing environment is crucial to someone who is struggling with an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy. Teen pregnancies and homelessness go hand in hand: Various school districts in Texas report that over 60% of teens who become pregnant experience homelessness at least once during their pregnancy.”
February 27, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Hey thanks!! i’ll add it to my links
and check it out a bit more 
thank you 